Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

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mrblackbat
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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:14 pm

Hmm... band aid. So like when we loaned David Bentley, what a terrible piece of business that was. Tom Cairney was another shocker. Tosin last year, he was a terrible loanee too. And, even though I said he'd be great at the time ( :D :oops: ) Danny Graham was definitely the worst loan deal Rovers ever did. What a shocker.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:26 pm

I’ve already said Tosin was our best defender... but we weren’t going to keep him. We simply got another loan this year to replace him.

Bentley was before my time. Yes, we did eventually purchase Graham. If there’s an eye towards doing this, great. Re: Adarabioyo, we knew at the time we could not possibly afford him.

You are probably right, loans are wonderful. I simply do not see it as a way to address the long-term needs of the club.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:29 pm

So aside from Tosin, all the others there were loanees that we bought, and all excellent pieces of business.

So your band aid analogy clearly is mosguided: try before you buy is a much better shout. And even if you want to and can't afford the player, why not take advantage of having them in any case?

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:50 pm

I see the good sense in getting Branthwaite; if we are truly close to a playoff spot, we weren’t getting there with Johnson as a centre-back. We might with Branthwaite.

As far as Ayala goes, I read too many pieces from places he’s played previously- he’s injury-prone. No surprise he’s done this season. I’m still hoping Douglas helps us down the stretch, same with Trybull. Elliott is an amazing player.

But, we have to replace them all next season.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by RoverthePennines » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:52 pm

WacoRover wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:26 pm
I’ve already said Tosin was our best defender... but we weren’t going to keep him. We simply got another loan this year to replace him.

Bentley was before my time. Yes, we did eventually purchase Graham. If there’s an eye towards doing this, great. Re: Adarabioyo, we knew at the time we could not possibly afford him.

You are probably right, loans are wonderful. I simply do not see it as a way to address the long-term needs of the club.
If a player is that good, they have a tendency to leave a club of the stature of ours after so short a period that it may as well have been a loan; see Craig Bellamy. It’s not unusual to have one breakthrough season and then sell. Rudy Gestede only had a season and a half as our player before determining is ambition and our performances didn’t tally. The point being, you can’t guarantee you’ll have any player the following season, so knowing that a loan is likely not to return isn’t a reason not to sign them in the first place. It’s a bit of an odd complaint.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by mrblackbat » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:46 pm

WacoRover wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:50 pm
I see the good sense in getting Branthwaite; if we are truly close to a playoff spot, we weren’t getting there with Johnson as a centre-back. We might with Branthwaite.

As far as Ayala goes, I read too many pieces from places he’s played previously- he’s injury-prone. No surprise he’s done this season. I’m still hoping Douglas helps us down the stretch, same with Trybull. Elliott is an amazing player.

But, we have to replace them all next season.
Roque Santa Cruz was injury prone. We should never have signed him. (Again, I never suggested that at the time.... :oops: )

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Gibbon » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:53 pm

WacoRover wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
Ayala & Douglas have been far off their performance this year, we won’t lose much when they return to their clubs.
WacoRover wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:50 pm
But, we have to replace them all next season.
Didn’t we sign Ayala on a 3 year deal? 😀

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:58 am

Gibbon wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:53 pm
WacoRover wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
Ayala & Douglas have been far off their performance this year, we won’t lose much when they return to their clubs.
Didn’t we sign Ayala on a 3 year deal? 😀
You are right, but based on what we’ve seen from him so far (or, what we’ve NOT seen from him), I don’t have any wildly successful expectations, LoL

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by mrblackbat » Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:17 am

WacoRover wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:58 am
Gibbon wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:53 pm
WacoRover wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
Ayala & Douglas have been far off their performance this year, we won’t lose much when they return to their clubs.
Didn’t we sign Ayala on a 3 year deal? 😀
You are right, but based on what we’ve seen from him so far (or, what we’ve NOT seen from him), I don’t have any wildly successful expectations, LoL
Definitely would have been terrible to try him out on a loan rather than just committing to him though....

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by Rover the Top » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:18 am

Loans are very useful if you have ambitions beyond maintaining your current position. They open up a market for a calibre of player you may not be able to attract or afford on a full time contract. Steve Archibald from Barcelona, anyone? And also, if you are successful in climbing the ladder, you can start recruiting for the next step without being lumbered with players on long term contracts who aren't the quality you need anymore. I think any Championship club looking to get out of this division (the right direction :D ) would be foolish not to embrace the option.

And there's not much point in attempting to build for the future when you're intent on replacing the architect and start again at the end of the season anyway. :whoosh:

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by WacoRover » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:38 pm

WacoRover wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm
Loaners are a band aid, a temporary fix. We’re not building for the future with them. As great as Harvey Elliott is, at the end of the season, he goes back to Liverpool. We could never afford him. Cunningham was doing a good job until he got hurt, back he goes. Adarabioyo was our best back a year ago, we couldn’t afford to keep him. We replaced those loaners this year- with more loaners. Ayala & Douglas have been far off their performance this year, we won’t lose much when they return to their clubs.

Isn’t that why we have an Academy, to develop players for the future? Develop our own players, and go get transfers if needed.
Interesting, Mowbray’s comments in the LT today:

“I’d always prefer to sign players because then they’re our players and we can improve them and move them on for our benefit, and not for that of other clubs.

... I hope Jarrad can come and do fantastically well, but the fact will be that he’ll only be doing fantastically well to go back to Everton.”

So, if I’m wrong on loaners, I’m wrong with Mowbray.

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by RoverthePennines » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:27 pm

What you’re saying is that you’re against loans because they don’t help Rovers in the long run, Mowbray is just stating that it’s a shame that the loaned player has to go back. If he agreed with you he wouldn’t sign loan players

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Re: Rovers vs. Doncaster, FA Cup: Post-match

Post by mrblackbat » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:20 pm

RoverthePennines wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:27 pm
What you’re saying is that you’re against loans because they don’t help Rovers in the long run, Mowbray is just stating that it’s a shame that the loaned player has to go back. If he agreed with you he wouldn’t sign loan players
Don't forget that hw also wants Mowbray out. ;)

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